The Linden Method - Question for Charles et al

Charles

I have just discovered your method online. I have read through a large amount of posts on this forum, in order to determine if by purchasing the Linden Method it will do me some good or will just be "another scam". [No offence! - I'm sure you must fight against people thinking your a "salesman" preying on susceptible people constantly.]

I won't go into my symptoms, etc - i'm 100% positive that i am surrounded in a "cloud of anxiety" and want to get sorted. I have a doctors appt tomorrow and will mention your method when discussing how i can get fixed, however am of the perception that drugs are not going to help in the long run. I have been to hypnotherapy, but found that i couldn't be "put under" fully. Hell, i've spent a fortune on that, so buying your method would be a drop in the ocean..........however....

My question(s) is this. How did you discover and develop your method? What happened to make you realise it? How do you stop people from "sharing" the method, or making it their own - esp if it is generally about learning behavioural changes (how do you patent/copyright that!)

Upon your reply and visiting my GP, i may well purchase the method and report on my progress on this forum. If it works, hopefully that may help other people realise it is not a scam. If it doesn't work, then at least i can report my own experience which will also help people make their decision. I think people need some posts on here that can't be constrewed as someone "posing" as a Linden Method supporter.

I hope that makes sense, i'm speaking from my own perception of how i currently view the method & information on t'internet about it. I want it to work, but will have to take GP advice first, as i have only just come across it. I will report back in this post.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark

I am not going to offer an opinion on the Linden Method. I know what it involves and I know it isn't something that would work for me but we are all different and I have heard testimony from people on this site, and elsewhere, who have had their lives transformed by it. I know that it is based on Charles Linden's own experiences with anxiety but, like you, I question why doctors don't prescribe it if it is so reliable.

There are also a lot of people with anxiety problems who won't entertain the idea of taking drugs - again, I respect their choices and opinions but don't share them. I have been taking medication for my anxiety and agoraphobia for about 7 months and, while I can by no means say that I am cured, my improvement has been considerable.

I understand your hesitation about buying a treatment from the internet because there are a lot of scams about but I understand that the Linden Method does carry a refund guarantee (I'm not absolutely certain about that so check it out first).

I do find it strange that you don't have the same hesitation about giving your money face-to-face to a hypnotherapist that can't 'put you under'. There is nobody that can't experience hypnosis - it is a naturally occuring state - and only a very small proportion of people that can't experience full somnambulistic trance. Did the therapist explain to you what you might experience under hypnosis or give you a reason why he couldn't help you to experience it (apart from the fact that he isn't a very good hypnotist)? How do you know you didn't 'go under', what were you expecting from it? I know that some people assume that it only works if they lose consciousness but this definitely isn't the case. While you are reading this mail, there will be things going on in your background that are entering your subconscious without being subjected to the critical judgement of your conscious mind because it is temporarily distracted - this is a simple form of hypnosis.

Anyway, whether you decide to buy the Linden Method or not, I wish you all the best in your recovery.

Chris

Hi Chris

I had no quarms in going to a hypnotherapist as i can see certificates, etc and also she practices on a renowned medical specialist area in Liverpool called Rodney St.

She was good at what she did and do understand that hypnosis is not what people necessarliy perceive, i had been to around 7 sessions and didn't notice any difference at all. The price i was paying was starting to burn a hole in my pocket as i was going every week. I had just decided that hypnosis was not the way to cure my problem. I may have been "under" but i was very conscious of what was going on, all the memories she asked me to recall were just me racking my brains for something to say, hence why i decided that i musn't have been totally "under" but in a relaxed state - which can be described as being hypnotised. In not so many words it didn't work for me.

Today, I have been issued drugs by my doc, rather a low dosage slow release anti-dep to start with. I think i will use them for a month or so to at least help me try to remember what feeling "normal" feels like. I will in the meantime research a bit more around the Linden Method.........

Thank you for your wishes, i'm sure i will be on this forum alot as i determined to sort my problem out.

Mark

Hi Mark

I'm afraid I'm with Derren Brown when he describes hypnotherapists as the 'devil's cock-cheese' - either be a hypnotist or a therapist. You don't get hypno-milkmen! All the therapists I've met have been a bit too happy-clappy for my liking and they are too quick to say "you must be doing something wrong" when their methods don't work. If you are still in a state where you have to think about your answers then you are in no state to repond to any kind of regressive memory therapy.

Do you mind me asking what medication you have been prescribed? Did the doctor mention any side-effects? Did he tell you that your anxiety is likely to get worse in the short-term when you first start taking them?

Chris

I don't mind saying what medication it is at all.........it's called Bedranol (Propranolol Hydrochloride) SR Capsules 80mg.

I got the impression that they are a fairly low dosage. The doc didn't mention that it may get worse. Up to now it hasn't, i suppose it's been a little better - but i do get periods where it is better than normal anyway.

I wanted to go to a hypnotherapist that was a little more "scientific" in their methods and as she was credited as being a psychotherapist, i thought she would be better than others. I did find she was a little "happy clappy" for my likings, i remember a conversation about apple pips and them having an aura if you squint for 2 mins or something. So not me! So i was a little put off by stuff like that. Hey ho, learnt that it just doesn't work me.

I was hoping that the Linden Method has a scientific flavour but can't really tell (presumably without buying) as no-one seems to describe or give any indication on how it works or what it involves.

Hi Mark

When I said that the medication would make your anxiety worse before it got better, I was assuming that the doctor had prescribed anti-depressant medication for your anxiety. Bedranol is a beta-blocker and I'm afraid I don't know much about it.

The Linden Method works on 9 principles, referred to as pillars in the documentation. These are designed to teach you to stop researching the effects of anxiety and looking for reassurances, stop accommodating anxiety and acting like you have a problem with anxiety. There are also sections about breathing control and distraction techniques and the dangers of benzo addiction - which I'm guessing wouldn't affect you right now. I believe there is some relaxation/self-hypno media that comes with it too.

As I said, it is based on Mr Linden's own struggle with anxiety rather than scientific fact but when I read the documentation I learnt a few things that I hadn't realised until then.

Again, best wishes

Chris

Thanks Chris.

She mentioned Anti-Deps but has suggested these first.

Seem ok after second day, but feeling quite tired tonight and a bit dazed (similar to feeling after a particularly bad day for me). I imagine they probably take a bit to get used to.

Having heard a few insights into the Linden Method i get the impression that i probably do some of the techniques automatically, however i like the sound of "........stop researching the effects of anxiety and looking for reassurances" as i am constantly trying to work out what it is doing and why, etc........so it may be of interest.

Chris, you seem to claim you feel alot better after a fairly long period of medication (apologies if i haven't got my facts straight there), does this mean the medication has to now be taken for life or have you stopped it and now the anxiety has stopped too? Just wanting to weigh up my options. Hope you don't mind me asking....

My current thought is to try mediaction for a month or so, to see how it works then to maybe move onto the Linden method. Drugs were going to be the last straw for me (which i'm getting to) but they are easy to maintain and easily accessible, so i thought i'd give them a go.

Hi Mark

Last September, before I started taking the medication, I was spending almost all day every day in bed. I would only leave my room if I had to go to the bathroom or something equally urgent and even going downstairs to collect a meal (that my mum had made) was completely terrifying.

I started to notice a difference after taking the medication for about 5 weeks and, even though things still seemed scary, they didn't seem absolutely impossible or pointless anymore.

This change gave me a little bit of strength and motivation to start being more adventurous and doing things for myself, which in turn was retraining my mind to believe that I could do things without something dreadful happening. Even with the drugs, the real effort to improve has to come from within you but they did give me a little bit of a boost to enable me to start this.

As for how long I'll be taking them, I really don't know. I'd like to think that one day I'll reach the point where I have achieved enough myself and boosted my confidence enough to be able to feel the same without the drugs - but at the moment many things in the world are still very scary and I don't want to risk stopping them and going back to square 1.

Some people say that drugs are just masking the real problem. I don't agree. I see it like someone who is trying to strengthen a recovering broken limb. They may take pain killers to enable them to exercise but it is the exercise that it strengthening it, not the pain killers.

I have to point out that none of the above applies to beta-blockers because they don't work on the same principal. Rather than being a long-term treatment to tackle the biochemical triggers of anxiety, beta-blockers work by stopping your body from reacting to the adrenalin that is released at times of anxiety - a quick-fix if you like. In other words, they won't stop the initial trigger from scaring you but they will stop the scary physical effects af anxiety from happening and scaring you further.

You mention that you are constantly trying to work out what it is doing and why... I know that GPs don't aren't always so accommodating that they'll explain things fully, but if there is anything in particular that you want to know, eg "why do I sweat so much, what causes adrenalin to be released?", etc, mail me - rabid.badger@ntlworld.com and I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Good luck

Chris

Cheers Chris

My anxiety is nowhere near what yourself and other sufferers experience(d), but it is enough for me to have made me change the way i live because of it. Now i just want to get rid of it.

I am generally feeling a little weird at the mo, presumably the beta-blockers. I'm going to keep it up for a couple of weeks. If there's no change i will have to back to the GP. I may also then see about the Linden Method.

I hope you get to the position that you want to be, but most importantly you help people on this forum as you have helped me. It's good to be able to be in contact with someone who wants to help and seems nice with it too!

I will PM you if i think of any questions, i think i'm that fed up with it all i'm all questionned out in my head!

Mark

Hi Mark

Thank you for your kind words.

We can tell ourselves something all day but if someone else says it, it tends to carry more authority and be more believable. On that basis I think we can all help each other.

Best wishes

Chris

Hi Emkai, and sorry to hear you've not been too good. I am also on betablockers at present after a 6 day battle with constant anxiety,they just stop the physical sensations that the adrenaline causes and ,as Chris said, this helps prevent feeling so bad.I am also taking Cipramil ,which I have to admit was hard to swallow(excuse the pun),as I'd come off a cousin of it ,seroxat in Nov 2006 after 12 years of being on it ! so it felt a bit like failiure,especially after all the hard work I'd done on self and tools I'd picked up..but strong as I am I couldnt fight this patch any longer. It is possible and probable that what I had was a relapse,as they are common and do happen,but I know it is also possible that I will need these meds for a while if not a long time.I have suffered with anxious thoughts since I was 14..I'm now 45..also I dont know what effect being on seroxat for 12 years has had so I'm not going to live in airy fairy land and fool myself..I'm just going to keep up the good work I had been doing,take each day at a time,and see .By the way my triggers for anxiety are health ,death and sometimes lack of confidence .

Best wishes and have a lovely weekend
jan

hi rabid badger your answers to other people have kept my mind off the panic when he leaves me you said its nice to read good comments well heres a big thankyou from me chrissy

Thank you Christine

Distraction is a very useful tool for tackling anxiety and it's amazing how many physical symptoms disappear when you stop thinking about them for long enough.

While I am happy that you get comfort from my posts, I hope one day you don't have to read them :)

Chris x

Links to free anxiety, panic and phobia related documents (http://anxietylinks.blogspot.com) on my blog
Anxiety and panic advice at www.troubled-minds.co.uk (http://www.troubled-minds.co.uk)