I came across the Linden Method quite by accident and read every word on quite a lengthy page. The claims being made seemed too good to be true. That always is a red flag for me.
I am a fifty year old man who had his first major panic attack 12 years ago. I am now currently unemployed as I am unable to travel but a few blocks. I have read a lot of material and have spent a lot of money on two programs; Chaange and Lucinda Bassett.
It is not the money that is my issue. It is the fear of investing in something and failing at it. At this point in my life that would crush me emotionally and I have had enough of that. The thing is, I want to get better in the worst way. So if I try and fail at yet another guaranteed way out I will wonder if this is simply my lot in life and I just happen to be one of those who "got away."
So here I sit debating with myself. Is it worth the risk? Is this simply an overhyped tool? Is it simply CBT repackaged?
Steve, I see the picture of you now and it makes me want to cry as I have had my life basically pulled out from under me. My traveling about has become a thing of the past. My ability to earn a living is a thing of the past. I'm looking for a life line but am afraid if I grab onto one there will be no one on the other end. I imagine I speak for a lot of sufferers. We have been beat up to a pulp emotionally by our anxiety and the idea of raising our hopes and falling short is almost too much to bear. I am still not decided. Allan
No method will cure you, it will have to be you. Life is full of possiblities, and you can do anything. That means you can get stuck in an anxiety cycle or you can experience fulfilling simplicity of life.
I have found the Linden method to be very good for content, and most probably the cheapest on the net. Besides of that I have found the therapists at the Linden Centre in UK to be very natural and I never experienced any money-gain persuasion to buy anything. I called once before I bought the method and once after.
What I am saying is: you can send CharlesL a private message on this forum or browse his website for the phone number of the Linden Centre (in UK) and call them.
If this method will cure you or not, that should not be a reason to be fearful of using that last straw of hope and not succeeding making it yield.
Anyway, I suggest you call them because there's something you're doing and it makes you constantly focus on where you stand towards your anxiety, and you're on the edge of being depressed or actually beyond, and I don't want to cause anything by advising you one way or the other, except for what I"ll tell you here:
1. The method is good, and it will make things clear for you, how to approach your becoming well again.
2. Anyone that has ever cured himself from anything that has to do with anxiety, in the end has done what the Linden Method says.
3. Feeling bad is NOT a failure.
Greetings, Peter.
I feel that if anyone is offering help, or a cure, or a new method, which earns them money, and potentially makes them very rich, I would avoid it like the plague. I have had anxiety for 22 years, and I have tried many many methods which have cost me a lot of money.. They were all rubbish.
LISTEN... Get a good doctor, take his/her advice, CBT is fantastic, and FREE on the NHS. Laugh plenty, and try and be happy..easy to do? No.
But don't make anybody rich through your suffering.
Old_Anonymous_Members 29-04-05, 04:24 PM Your making your doctor rich from your suffering... and he/she is sending you on an endless cycle of medications that have an extremely low percentage rate of working...
I'd find it hard to take your advice Jeremy, considering your seem to still be suffering... Think I'd prefer to take the word of people who have overcome it... And for a FACT I know it can be eliminated without medication (after all I eliminated mine without medication)
I proved my doctor wrong when she said I could not get well again without medications.
I always find it amazing how some people will come in and complain about paying money for a book/audio whatever it should be on conquering anxiety CLAIMING it should be free...
However these types of programs have a much higher success rate of helping people eliminate their anxiety then medications.
Do you go back to your Chemist and ask for a refund when your anti-depressants didn't take your anxiety and panic away? Do you run around claiming these people who are selling you these medications (that have a low success rate) shouldn't be getting rich from it?
Cause guess what, they are getting rich from it!
Lets do the math here... If you've been diagnosed with anxiety & panic disorder - chances are a large percentage have been prescribed something along the lines of anti-depressants, valium and xanax... there's $60 worth of medications just there... Then approx. $50 for the doctors consultations... And whatever extra on any tests he put you through...
Thats well over $110, and did it make you feel any better? I bet it didn't!
Just my two cents worth...
I am certainly glad we have programs out there such as the Linden Method and the Lucinda Basset program offering a greater education!
Old_Anonymous_Members 29-04-05, 04:32 PM A special note to Allan...
I have read the Linden Method before... and it does have some great material in there (this is a completely unbiased comment)
If you don't feel it has helped you, or CAN help you in any way after reading it, then get a refund of your money... You don't have to take any risk where money is concerned...
The only risk is hoping for a "magical pill"... Unfortunately there never is a "magic pill"...
You have to work hard with the information you gather to make it work... I know you feel so dam alone, and you wish someone could take a bit more of the fall for you.... But they can't... It has to be your decision... You must let go and trust... Trust yourself... Know within yourself you can make yourself well again.
I wish you all the best Allan
I feel that if anyone is offering help, or a cure, or a new method, which earns them money, and potentially makes them very rich, I would avoid it like the plague. I have had anxiety for 22 years, and I have tried many many methods which have cost me a lot of money.. They were all rubbish.
LISTEN... Get a good doctor, take his/her advice, CBT is fantastic, and FREE on the NHS. Laugh plenty, and try and be happy..easy to do? No.
But don't make anybody rich through your suffering.
I think some people missed the point on this thread when they said that doctors only prescribe drugs, implying infefinitely, and take people's money.
What Jeremy says makes sense, take the meds for a short time if your doctor feels they are needed, and CBT is a wonderful tool (and free at NHS!) to cope with and overcome the disorder. There, therapy, training, no more drugs, no more money spent---sounds win-win to me.
Not all of the methods out there for sale work for everyone; I have tried the Lucinda Basset method, and seriously regret forking out the money for that. I too, am skeptical about other methods that can make them potentially rich over the misfortune of others.
I had much better luck with books about anxiety, panic attacks, and tools and techniques to overcome them. And therapy!
Good luck to you Jeremy, whatever method you select, and I hope it helps you very soon.
Old_Anonymous_Members 17-05-05, 11:13 PM Okay, good posts all.... a lot of debating, always healthy.
Here's the thing. I've been going through this website, searching the forums, reading so many posts my eyes are blurring now. I've read over and over about the anxiety attacks, which are real. But, and this is a big issue for me, I don't really see much about the DISORDER.
I've tried a lot of self help and other methods, visit my doctor, have tried nearly ever med out there (only take Xanex, though, since I have a low tolerance to medicines and have reactions to most, even Zoloft) and other therapies, including psychological. I get very concerned when people start claiming that the disorder is not a medical condition (as I read above), but instead something we can control on our own. Sure, we can, and do, learn to deal with the ATTACKS and such, but that doesn't CURE the problem.
Anxiety Disorder IS A DISEASE, A MENTAL DISEASE. There is a lot of information out there to attest to that....there is even a law now, that protects those of us with the disorder in the work place. People can get disability because of this. To boldly tell those with this disorder that it is NOT a medical condition can be dangerous. Mental illnesses are different than physical diseases. You don't tell a diabetic, go ahead and eat that chocolate cake, you can learn to breathe right so that your blood sugar levels won't be affected!
The problem with mental illness is that it is hard to understand. With anxiety disorder, everyone talks about the PHSYICAL affects of the disorder....this is common, and can be seen with the eye. There are ways to help with them, both through relaxation techniques, meds, exercise, foods and diets. But, the other part, the DISORDER itself, the MENTAL illness part.....to suggest that it is not a disease or mental illness just causes more confusion and upset in those that have it.
The disorder affects every day life....causes excessive worry, thoughts that won't stop (whether they are thoughts of impending doom, or just thoughts about what needs to be done, what's for dinner, should I buy that book?, whatever)....the brain keeps going, will NOT stop....and, as I said, that doesn't mean that all the thoughts are bad, but the constant activity is hard to deal with.
If all we (generally speaking) had to deal with is the attacks, it wouldn't be as bad. I've had the disorder for many years, have lost all jobs, can not work outside of the home, and it's not really because of the attacks themselves. The attacks are scary, frightening and make us worried that something is seriously wrong. They are not good on the body, make us feel weak and tired, achy, grouchy. The disorder is different, it is what causes the attacks, the physical part of the illness, but it also affects the way we think.....hence MENTAL ILLNESS.
Neurons and chemicals in our brains are responsible for a lot of that. That is why some meds will work for some people. And, there are different levels of severity for sufferers...so, what may work for one person, doesn't mean it will work for another.
To the gentleman who started this post, I compeltely understand about your feelings and fears, as I can not hold a job either. It is frustrating, takes away your pride and self worth, and you don't understand why, especially when you didn't USED to be like this. Then it is very frusting and confusing with all of these so-called 'guranteed' cures....you wan't so very much to believe in them, but are afraid of failure again. Get your hopes up just to have them shot down. That's normal.
I just worry that with people out there trying to say that something that is now proven to be a MENTAL ILLNESS, is really not....well, that is indeed scary. No one really understands mental illnesses, so some will come up with all kinds of excuses and self helps and suggestions. Those are all fine, and many will help with the attacks and help with positive thinking...which WILL help.....but, never forget that Anxiety Disorder IS a mental illness, and with all diseases and illnesses, you must be careful how you approach tending to it.
As to the argument about paying for something or a program as the one that's being discussed here...well, I'll say that if the person doing the program doesn't see that it IS A MENTAL ILLNESS, then the program would make me worried. Just as meds can cover up symptoms, so can the wrong kind of information...that can be dangerous.
If something works for you, great. If it's worth paying for it, great. But do your research....be sure the person or company who's putting out the program or book is familiar enough, and recognizes Anxiety Disorder for what it is. You can be 'tricked' into believing that you can fix everything with just your thoughts....the mind is a very valuable machine...but does that actually fix the problem, the illnesss, or will it, eventually, end up causing more troubles later in life?
Sorry, but it does upset me when someone tries to say that the Disorder is not an illness, and in some cases a SERIOUS illness, but that we can actually just 'think' it away.
Tess
Old_Anonymous_Members 18-05-05, 03:00 AM I was so sad to read about the pain experienced by this 50 year old man. Losing his freedom and his livelihood to the condition. I was even sadder to read Joesy's response. To blame the sufferer rather than the disease is almost cruel. Anxiety and panic comes in many different strengths and forms. Some can be self managed and some can spiral out of control. There is slow onset vs rapid and deep onset; with or without severe depression and /or dread etc..... Who are we to pressume we know the form of the illness suffered by others? Declaration of one treatment vs. another as the cure to some generic anxiety dissorder is rediculous.
I have suffered at many levels. Some periods I managed through meditation and excercise while at other times the anxiety lead to an inabilty to function. At one point I refused medication insiting that I could manage through mental training and self-control. As I got worse, I blamed my own weakness for not being able to combat the disease. Soon my anxiety was so severe that I couldn't eat, I had chronic diarrhea and fainting episodes resulting in a percipitous weight loss. I couldn't take care of my family and relatives had to rescue me. Finally, I succumbed to Paxil and short term use of attivan. It was a painful wait for the drugs to take effect but it was worth it. I believe they saved my sanity. I am only sorry that I had to become so ill before I would agree to take medication. In hind sight is was so much unnecessary pain for me and my loved ones. Now I am joyful and well - independent and even adventurous. Sometimes I have a relapse ussualy in the winter and I return to medication. Drugs are not a cop out or a sell out. The sick may have to pay for their medication but they can be life saving.
Go to a Dr. and accept help.
P.S. I tried Linda Bassett - no help at all. It made me obsesson my symptoms which actually excacerbated my anxiety. I am sure there are many others that it does help
Okay, good posts all.... a lot of debating, always healthy.
Here's the thing. I've been going through this website, searching the forums, reading so many posts my eyes are blurring now. I've read over and over about the anxiety attacks, which are real. But, and this is a big issue for me, I don't really see much about the DISORDER.
I've tried a lot of self help and other methods, visit my doctor, have tried nearly ever med out there (only take Xanex, though, since I have a low tolerance to medicines and have reactions to most, even Zoloft) and other therapies, including psychological. I get very concerned when people start claiming that the disorder is not a medical condition (as I read above), but instead something we can control on our own. Sure, we can, and do, learn to deal with the ATTACKS and such, but that doesn't CURE the problem.
Anxiety Disorder IS A DISEASE, A MENTAL DISEASE. There is a lot of information out there to attest to that....there is even a law now, that protects those of us with the disorder in the work place. People can get disability because of this. To boldly tell those with this disorder that it is NOT a medical condition can be dangerous. Mental illnesses are different than physical diseases. You don't tell a diabetic, go ahead and eat that chocolate cake, you can learn to breathe right so that your blood sugar levels won't be affected!
The problem with mental illness is that it is hard to understand. With anxiety disorder, everyone talks about the PHSYICAL affects of the disorder....this is common, and can be seen with the eye. There are ways to help with them, both through relaxation techniques, meds, exercise, foods and diets. But, the other part, the DISORDER itself, the MENTAL illness part.....to suggest that it is not a disease or mental illness just causes more confusion and upset in those that have it.
The disorder affects every day life....causes excessive worry, thoughts that won't stop (whether they are thoughts of impending doom, or just thoughts about what needs to be done, what's for dinner, should I buy that book?, whatever)....the brain keeps going, will NOT stop....and, as I said, that doesn't mean that all the thoughts are bad, but the constant activity is hard to deal with.
If all we (generally speaking) had to deal with is the attacks, it wouldn't be as bad. I've had the disorder for many years, have lost all jobs, can not work outside of the home, and it's not really because of the attacks themselves. The attacks are scary, frightening and make us worried that something is seriously wrong. They are not good on the body, make us feel weak and tired, achy, grouchy. The disorder is different, it is what causes the attacks, the physical part of the illness, but it also affects the way we think.....hence MENTAL ILLNESS.
Neurons and chemicals in our brains are responsible for a lot of that. That is why some meds will work for some people. And, there are different levels of severity for sufferers...so, what may work for one person, doesn't mean it will work for another.
To the gentleman who started this post, I compeltely understand about your feelings and fears, as I can not hold a job either. It is frustrating, takes away your pride and self worth, and you don't understand why, especially when you didn't USED to be like this. Then it is very frusting and confusing with all of these so-called 'guranteed' cures....you wan't so very much to believe in them, but are afraid of failure again. Get your hopes up just to have them shot down. That's normal.
I just worry that with people out there trying to say that something that is now proven to be a MENTAL ILLNESS, is really not....well, that is indeed scary. No one really understands mental illnesses, so some will come up with all kinds of excuses and self helps and suggestions. Those are all fine, and many will help with the attacks and help with positive thinking...which WILL help.....but, never forget that Anxiety Disorder IS a mental illness, and with all diseases and illnesses, you must be careful how you approach tending to it.
As to the argument about paying for something or a program as the one that's being discussed here...well, I'll say that if the person doing the program doesn't see that it IS A MENTAL ILLNESS, then the program would make me worried. Just as meds can cover up symptoms, so can the wrong kind of information...that can be dangerous.
If something works for you, great. If it's worth paying for it, great. But do your research....be sure the person or company who's putting out the program or book is familiar enough, and recognizes Anxiety Disorder for what it is. You can be 'tricked' into believing that you can fix everything with just your thoughts....the mind is a very valuable machine...but does that actually fix the problem, the illnesss, or will it, eventually, end up causing more troubles later in life?
Sorry, but it does upset me when someone tries to say that the Disorder is not an illness, and in some cases a SERIOUS illness, but that we can actually just 'think' it away.
Tess
Tess,
I left your post quoted verbatim, and in totality, because I totally agree with you. You are absolutely right that no one is acknowledging that this is a mental illness (stigma, you know, and I doubly know because I also suffer from biplar disorder).
Anxiety Disorder and Panic Disorder are recongnized mental illnesses in the American Medical Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM4). Actually, if one were to peruse the manual, there's a whole smorgasboard (sp?) of anxiety disorders, all recongnized as mental illnesses.
Well put Tess, and thanks for illuminating the truth.
To blame the sufferer rather than the disease is almost cruel. Anxiety and panic comes in many different strengths and forms. Some can be self managed and some can spiral out of control. There is slow onset vs rapid and deep onset; with or without severe depression and /or dread etc..... Who are we to presume we know the form of the illness suffered by others? Declaration of one treatment vs. another as the cure to some generic anxiety dissorder is ridiculous.
I have suffered at many levels. Some periods I managed through meditation and excercise while at other times the anxiety lead to an inabilty to function. At one point I refused medication insiting that I could manage through mental training and self-control. As I got worse, I blamed my own weakness for not being able to combat the disease. Soon my anxiety was so severe that I couldn't eat, I had chronic diarrhea and fainting episodes resulting in a percipitous weight loss. I couldn't take care of my family and relatives had to rescue me. Finally, I succumbed to Paxil and short term use of attivan. It was a painful wait for the drugs to take effect but it was worth it. I believe they saved my sanity. I am only sorry that I had to become so ill before I would agree to take medication. In hind sight is was so much unnecessary pain for me and my loved ones. Now I am joyful and well - independent and even adventurous. Sometimes I have a relapse ussualy in the winter and I return to medication. Drugs are not a cop out or a sell out. The sick may have to pay for their medication but they can be life saving.
Go to a Dr. and accept help.
P.S. I tried Linda Bassett - no help at all. It made me obsesson my symptoms which actually excacerbated my anxiety. I am sure there are many others that it does help
Another excellent post; I couldn't have said it better. This is precisely why I recommend medications for those who need it, along with the proper treatment of a psychiatrist who specializes in anxiety disorders.
I am glad you are better, and hope you have very few relapses in the future.
Old_Anonymous_Members 19-05-05, 06:25 PM Thank you, and sorry about going off on the forum that way.
It's just that it upsets me to think of those that are concerned and scared about their disorder, and then to have someone else say they can CURE them, that it's all in their head (paraphrasing of course), when we spend our time trying to come to terms with our illness. For those who haven't been informed enough, or really realize that it is a disease, these kinds of words will only make them suffer more.
I, myself, am sick and tired of 'loved ones' telling me it's all in my head, it's a mind set, etc.
Anyway, thanks again to all.
Tess
Thank you, and sorry about going off on the forum that way.
It's just that it upsets me to think of those that are concerned and scared about their disorder, and then to have someone else say they can CURE them, that it's all in their head (paraphrasing of course), when we spend our time trying to come to terms with our illness. For those who haven't been informed enough, or really realize that it is a disease, these kinds of words will only make them suffer more.
I, myself, am sick and tired of 'loved ones' telling me it's all in my head, it's a mind set, etc.
Anyway, thanks again to all.
Tess
Tess,
You did an excellent service posting the truth, and bringing it to mind of all of the people who peruse the forums. Maybe it was time that someone "went off." Wish I had of done it myself, actually!
I too,am sick of people telling me it's all in my mind, get over it, etc.
Good luck to you Tess, and I hope that you will feel better sooner, rather than later.
Guest wrote:
there is even a law now, that protects those of us with the disorder in the work place.
What law are you referring to? Please tell me more about it.
I generally agree with guest, a mental disorder is not in ones head and trying to think it away will result in more distress, not to mention the loss of courage and frustration that comes with each approach that didnt work.
Its good that meds helped in this particular case, but meds are what made everything worse for me too. So just for the record, Im standing here opposing everything that the so called professionals have to offer because nothing has worked for me, everything has even made me worse.
I do agree that its almost cruel to tell someone who suffers with a mental disorder that its all in their head, its very invalidating to blame the sufferers and not the illness. I found out that most of psychology holds the view that it is the sufferer themselves that are in charge of their illness which is only blame disguised as professional help (a very subtle way of invalidating the patient).
As a last resort I will try mr. lindens method though because everything he said so far goes well with the conclusions I drew myself.
Mr. linden doesnt say that its all in ones head, he says that anxiety is a physical thing. Also, he objects meds and cbt and talk therapy. This is my stance as well because all three approaches have made it worse for me.
Since mr. linden seems to support the views that I have, I will try his method as my last attempt to help me. If it doesnt work Ill get my money back and never touch any 'help' again.
Guest wrote:
there is even a law now, that protects those of us with the disorder in the work place.
What law are you referring to? Please tell me more about it.
You don't have a location listed in your profile, but if you live in the USA, it's called the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA for short).
Snake, I'm sorry that meds and therapy didn't work for you, it doesn't work for everyone.
I wish you the best of luck with the Linden Method, and if it doesn't work, you can get your money back as you say.
Let us know how it goes, and hoping it goes very well!
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